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October 31, 2008

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Amy, per your comments, a person does not make a decision to believe in God based on whether or not God's followers "get along". To suggest we remain silent while another church manipulates people, for the sake of unity, is about the same as telling a group of Muslims to not speak out when a Madrassa teaches its students about the nobility of being a suicide bomber.

Tommy Houghteling

There's no "faith" involved here, just over the top theatrics and fear-mongering.

I go to Trinity and particpate in Hell House. We are not trying to come across with a message of condemnation, we are trying to make people realize that these awful situations like rape, suicide, abortion, and ect. are not from God at all, but are from Satan. That the enemy will try anything to steal, kill, and distory you. I am truly sorry that our message hit you so off base, and came out so distorted to you. While I do understand where you coming from about scaring kids, and how it may seem unnecessary, how else do you expect to get a message across in this generation of acceptable sins? Things like abortion and infidelity are the norm to my generation, we need to realize that THIS IS NOT RIGHT. The one thing that you seem to have forgetten in your article is the message that is given once you reach the end of Hell House, it is not a message of unforgiveness, or condemnation but a message that tells of God's overwhelming love for His people, how He wants nothing more but to reach out and have a relationship with you and that no matter what you may have done in the past your sins can ALWAYS be forgiven.

The one thing Mr. Houghteling didn't inform you of was the way he exited the message room, the way he screamed and yelled at one of our staff giving the message and stormed out. In my opinion you should take a look at the whole program before making such a harsh judgement.


Linda,
I do not hate anyone. I am not sure where that even came from. I will continue to say this though, it was Halloween they were supposed to scare people.

Haylie it doesn't matter what your message is... it's just a lame attempt to brainwash kids the way you've been brainwashed. Last year I went to one of those hellhouses myself. I saw the way you religious fanatics condemn people who don't agree with you. THATS THE MESSAGE. Blaming it on some imaginary Satan is a cop-out. YOU are the one behind the demon's mask. The fingers pointing at so-called sinners are YOURS, not some imaginary devil's. Stop pretending you know what's good for the rest of us. You don't.

Amanda, did you even read Haylie's post? Did you miss the message of love and not condemnation. You sound pretty angry and even condemning towards Haylie who doesn't "agree" with you. Why is okay for you and not her? Just asking? Isn't it great that we live in a nation where we can have our own opinions and can believe what we want? In other countries where Christians were silent for a while they are now imprisoned for their beliefs I am so glad we have not gone that far in America. Amanda and all the others who disagree don't forget to be thankful everyday that you can have your opinion as well and believe or not believe what you want to.

If christians didnt spend so much time judging non-christians maybe people wouldn't be so angry. I agree wth Amanda.

Tommy really you are comparing suicide and murder of innocent people to a realistic depiction of society today and one interpretation of hell and spiritual warfare that was played out to people who chose to witness it. Those visiting Hell House can be escorted out any time. Not so for those who are affected by suicide bombers. And of course the way God's people get along affect the decisions of non believers. Why would they want to be like us, they already are.

Amy, I dont think you understood my post. I am not comparing them to suicide bombers. I compared them to certain Madrassas, islamic schools which teach of the nobility of fighting the unbeliever. I referenced it to point out that just as you would not expect Muslims to be silence in the face of this teaching of hate to young people, so we should not be silent when our churches teach messages of hate towards people who dont believe the way we do. If you do not think telling a teenager that their friend who commits suicide is going to hell, is teaching hate for the non Christian, then I am afraid we speak a different language.

And just to clarify for those who are reading, I did not depart Hell House Yelling and screaming, haha.. I did speak up when they were preaching at us, but as I have explained in previous posts... How could i remain silent!!!

I am afraid I have written too much these past few days. I'm sure this discussion, like so many others, will not result in changed minds as these things rarely do. Instead, we have probably all made up our minds about which side of the issue we fall on and will defend that position to the bitter end.
hehe.. pardon the cynical tone, I am beginning to get dizzy from the circular nature of this discussion...

Tommy Houghteling

Amy-

the"reality of heaven and hell"? Really??

I will say this- the "reality" of heaven and hell that you believe in turns people away. It turned me away. I went to the same church my ENTIRE life. I was incredibly active in my church for a period of time and I love it. The reason why I loved it was because I had a youth pastor who was accepting, who never once took me to a place like a hell house, who never told me I was wrong for feeling like I didn't know God and didn't want to know God anymore, who never scared me away from all of it. He was the kind of youth pastor who took his group now to demonstrate at a Hell House, to have a voice about what they believed in and to show other people who go there that not all Christians believe in the propoganda they are putting out there. Unity? Would you want unity with someone you thought was completely wrong- I wouldn't. Unifying is not how you are going to convert non-Christians to Christianity. I was lucky enough to know that not all "Christians" believe in the things that were displayed at the hell house. I was incredibly lucky because I think I might be WAY more jaded about religion than I am. I am because of these conservative evangelical scare tactics that are complete and utter bull. (not to mention a million and one other reasons) I appreciate your tone and the level of respect and coming from a "non-Christian", I think I just got a bit lighter about Christianity because of people like Tommy Houghteling and the people in his youth group. He's still nurturing young people to stand up for what they believe in, question things and be examples. Kudos kudos kudos.

with love,

Kelly Miner

Kelly,
I love my youth and I respect their opinion. I encourage them to voice their opinion. I accept all of them the way they are. However, there are certain things that Christians believe that make them Christians. There are certain things that other religions believe and that is how they identify with their religion, so it is not just Christians. Here's is how I look at it. If you want to make sugar cookies but you don't have sugar so you decide to use salt instead, you no longer have the start of sugar cookies but now you have play dough. Same with Christianity. You can't just start switching "ingredients" (beliefs)and still call it Christianity. If there is no hell then what did Jesus die for? If Jesus died for nothing or didn't die at all then what religion are we talking about? I am so confused. If I didn't tell them about Hell and it does turn out to be real, how much did I really love them then. I was afraid to tell you about Hell because I didn't want to offend you, my bad.

One more thing, my youth asked me to take them to Hell House. We have been for the last 6 years in a row and to be honest standing in line four hours was just not that appealing to me. But after several requests from several different ones I decided to give in and take them per their request. I did not force them, it was almost the opposite. Please don't make it sound like I am some evil youth leader forcing my youth to see hell house. I would never force anyone to do something they are not comfortable with. I even had one who opted not to go and I respected her decision and said I would see her Sunday, no hard feelings, mutual respect between two people. She had free choice like we all had free choice. No one is forcing anyone to go to hell house. They are not making you pay your money to go through it is all by choice. So you don't agree with Hell House or that church-don't go. Just an idea, but why do you gotta be hatin on them.

Amanda-
What I think that you, as well as people who share your beliefs fail to realize is that attending hell house is not mandatory for anyone. It is an alternative attraction on halloween for teenagers and adults alike who don't feel like giving satan his day. Hell House is in no way, shape or form meant to brainwash kids into believing that everything bad that happens to them is their fault.

Tommy- I would like to know what your goal was in protesting Hell House. Was it purely for your Youth group or do you have some kind of vendetta against evangelical fundraisers? Because what you all have failed to previously mention is that hell house is a FUNDRAISER! It is a way for Trinity Church to raise funds for their church and at the same time provide an alternative to traditional haunted houses. The thing that I would like to reiterate is that NO ONE is forced to go to hell house, so your youth group should have made an informed decision on whether or not to attend. If you knew previously that hell house portrayed real life situations that some of your youth have dealt with, then why take them? Why subject them to those kind of images period, knowing that hell house is about HELL?

I wholeheartedly agree with all of Amy's assertions. To call her opinions hateful, as Linda did was ludicrous and unprecedented. She was simply posting her opinion, which is what i believed this site to be based on and she was bashed for it. You can bash me if you want and say that I too have been brainwashed, but guess what..i wasn't raised in the traditional Christian home, I was the one who decided for myself to go to church and to hell house.

It also didn't help that the props and stage for 'hellhouse' were built by two clansmen either! go ahead ask about the klansmen. I know who they are.

I just wanted to commend Trinity Church for standing up and doing what needs to be done. There are too many 'Christians' out there these days who do not stand for the true word, who do not practice what they preach, and will definitely not reap the rewards of our Father's heaven, but rather suffer the eternal woes of hell. My only concern with this year's Hell House was its exclusions of any questions involving the sin of interracial couples. I fear that the acceptance of interracial couples and marriage is growing in our community and that such a fine event as Hell House could open many peoples' eyes to their misconceptions.

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